Good old Bernie....

[Bagwan]

Looks like I chased a bunny out of the garden and this thread .

[airshifter]

Well at least you can tell Trophy Wife with a straight face that the reason her beans are safe now is due to you spending time on the forum. Not that I ​would tell her that, but you could.


After some digging I found some interview stuff from Max and his comments on the Spingate incident. I had originally thought it was Bernie that did the interview. If anything really gets proven they are going to look like not much action was really taken in the long term. The piece also goes into how it was different from Spygate, and why they let that slide with the huge fine.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/q-...33327/4433327/


"Q. So therefore any penalty, should you find Renault guilty, would have to be severe to prove you are fair?MM: Depending again on all the circumstances, probably. If you look at any other sport, if somebody fixes the result then it's usually taken seriously.
Fixing is one degree worse than cheating, like if you're a cyclist and you take dope, that's cheating. If you bribe the other cyclists, or you get somebody to have a crash in the peloton so the yellow jersey guy crashes, that's more serious.
Then if it puts human life at risk, whether it's the spectators, the marshals or the drivers, then it's more serious again. The moment we talk about that, we sort of imply they are guilty, but we don't know. Until they put their defence in, we've got to assume they're innocent."

[airshifter]

Well the ball is still moving. I had seen articles on the expectation of the FIA reply to the initial "Letter Before Claim" notice to F1 and the FIA. Some articles state that Massa's lawyers initially wanted a quicker response, but agreed to add time due to the summer break and schedules.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor...eve%20Nielsen.

Multiple sources are stating Massa has lawyers in several countries, and I'm sure that doesn't come cheap.... unless they are sure they can recover money. Sources are claiming the demand is for 13 million. In terms of F1 drivers money, not a lot really. And when you consider that might include the attorneys fees, Massa wouldn't get a big payout if it was awarded. It almost seems he is more about exposing the system rather than seeking a huge money grab.

Only time will tell, but they don't seem to be wanting to back down on the matter easily.

[Bagwan]

Expose that system , Flip .
The two guys in the drivers's seat at the time are dead and doddering .
It's a moment for the new guys to take a step to fix it .
The longer it goes on , the more toxic it will become for the governing body , so a clean-up at a cost of a mere 13 million that could put this ugly bunny to bed could be easily worth it .
It could restore some faith in the FIA , and get the bad taste out of the mouth of a whole country .

Here's a conspiracy theory for you :
Renault must have known this would come up eventually , and that's probably why they changed the name to Alpine .
Massa probably called to warn them .

[airshifter]

I'm sure if he honestly feels the title was wrongly awarded then holding someone accountable is a big deal. I'd have to think the legal fees would eat up a lot of money if he does get any, so it doesn't really seem to be a money grab. I'm sure the people running the show now would rather not have to deal with it, but even if Felipe doesn't take things very fare it does sort of put the current powers that be on notice that they are not above legal actions if they make poor decisions.

I guess we'll start seeing what the current bodies think within a month or so.

[airshifter]

This has been silent for quite some time, but apparently now there is legal action with an amount attached.

Felipe is seeking 80 million for damages. All said and done, IF there ends up being sufficient evidence, it's really not that large of an amount to ask for.

Maybe now in forums across the globe, people can quit speculating on the Horner stuff to speculate on the Massa stuff for a while. Having seen some of the nonsense posted on other forums, some people really, really, really need the break. And those people still want the court of public opinion to decide on Horner.... as long as it's what they speculate.

[airshifter]

I think his qualms is with the dodgy FIA and F1M. History repeated itself at Abu Dhabi did it not? So much time has passed, such that it would be ridiculous at best to alter such a long-standing race result. However, Bernie's comments have opened up an ugly can of worms. The old fart should be relegated away from cameras, microphones etc

I think it is vastly different to Abu Dhabi. What took place at AD '21 was seen by the world. The decisions were then based on the semantics of the regs, appeals, etc. IF there is any truth to the statements Bernie has made, whoever knew about it kept it in the dark, didn't follow the policy in place, and potentially altered a WDC, as well as both WDC and WCC points standings.

While it has been a long time, if Bernie kept his mouth shut all the time nobody would have known. And if he did open his mouth he probably should have just taken it to the grave. But to silence the only person who might know the truth isn't doing anyone any justice either. Even if they don't change any results officially, if by the regs Felipe should have been WDC then they should at least acknowledge that and the mistakes involved. If nothing else it might help them take a hard look at the regs, how investigations work, the process, etc.

[airshifter]

However, Bernie's comments have opened up an ugly can of worms. The old fart should be relegated away from cameras, microphones etc

The problem with this sort of accusation is that they tanish the names of good people.

It's not really a surprise that you think such accusations can tarnish the names of people is it?



If they had the info, it might come to light that they just looked the other way and let it happen, knowing the ruleset required otherwise. I would imagine that if the info was out there, more than a few people would have been in the chain of information.

I'm going to dig some, as I recall Bernie doing an interview where he said race fixing was worse than cheating in his mind. It would seem to me he changed his opinion on that fairly quickly when it came to light that the race was fixed. All in all, Renault got off fairly easy when said and done. The disqualification was suspended for two years, Flavio and Symonds ended back up in motorsport after appealing to higher courts, and Renault ended up paying out some cash on a libel suit from the Piquet's.

[Steve Boyd]

I'm going to dig some, as I recall Bernie doing an interview where he said race fixing was worse than cheating in his mind. It would seem to me he changed his opinion on that fairly quickly when it came to light that the race was fixed.

Bernie strikes me as the sort of bloke who says anything he thinks his listener(s) want to hear. That's why he can never remember what he said and why I never believe a word he says.

[The Black Knight]

Don't get me wrong, l do sympathize with Massa for the cruel turn of events that saw him lose the 2008 championship by one point. That was same sort of turn of events that saw Hamilton lose the 2007 driver's title by one point to Kimi. It is just the way it is. But suing the FIA and F1M is not cool. He is looking like a sore loser. I get that 2008 was his only real chance of winning a driver's title. And he came so close.

I look at differently- the FIA have a sporting responsibility to ensure fairness. It has failed repeatedly throughout the years on this and in many cases covered up cheating and sabotaged drivers. I’m tired of this I’m F1. It’s about time someone did something about it.