Good old Bernie....

[Tazio]

Felipe Baby

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[airshifter]

I don't think anybody would have to prove anything other than the fact that the race results should not have been included in the season results.

By including the race they allowed several drivers to pay a penalty of positions lost in the race, as well as changing the finishing order of constructors at the end of the season.

We know the race was fixed, and if these lawsuits continue we might find out how early people in the governing bodies knew it was fixed. Bernie could well take it to the grave, but depending on where the information flowed from it might still be very condemning of the governing bodies. And if the right information is found money will no doubt change hands.

[Bagwan]

Sorry, that is ridiculous. A race took place in spite of the crash. And cars that finished that race deserved to be rewarded for how they finished that race. It is the same as saying the race results for the 2021 Abu Dhabi race should not have been included in the 2021 championship.

It is also quite an exaggeration to say that race was fixed at lap 14 of a 60-lap race. If they want to fix the race they would do a Masi at the end of the race. You only know things from hearsay and speculations of what Ecclestone is claimed to have said. At worst mistakes were probably made. The idea that Ecclestone and Mosley fixed a championship outcome is quite ridiculous to say the least. They had their flaws but this sort of thing is not one of them.

The problem with this sort of accusation is that they tanish the names of good people.

Everything that happened after that intentional crash was affected by it , and different from the situation that would have ensued had the crash not occurred .

If it is proven that the Max and Bernie show knew about the facts before the end of the season , and that the "intentional" aspect of it was clear , then the race should certainly be thrown out .

Sure , it might look ugly , but that episode was an ugly one , and wiping up and making things right in the end , rather than "tarnish the names of good people" , actually does the opposite .

Had Jr. not come out with the truth eventually , it might have all gone away . Had Ecclestone not made his memory fade interview , giving in that they knew before the awards were given out , Massa wouldn't have a leg to stand on in all of this .

What Air told you was not ridiculous at all .

And it has no similarity at all with what happened in Abu Dhabi .
None .

[airshifter]

Your recent edit is telling Nitrodaze. When someone points out that you are not speaking known truths but dealing in speculation, and it's true, questioning their character isn't the appropriate action to take.


IF this conversation with Piquet Sr. and Charlie took place at all, chances are only Piquet Sr and Jr are aware of when he was given the information, why the delay took place, and why it came up at the end of the race in Brazil. Yet you're rattling on about what is impossible when 1000's of scenarios are possible, and at this point of time none of us know which might be truth.

Just as with your often frequent other conspiracy theories, this one is much the same. Essentially that people conspired to screw Lewis over, and this is just another example of that. But for anyone that can look at this case without bias, Lewis has nothing to do with any potential wrongdoing, possibility for punishment, or anything else. He would simply be the guy that awarded the title that might have rightly belonged to another. Nobody would blame Lewis for accepting a title awarded, nor would anyone most likely think anything less of Lewis if the FIA member(s) acted in poor faith and didn't do the right thing.

Not everyone else's Formula 1 world revolves around Lewis. Though I was never a big Massa fan myself if he got screwed out of a title that by the regs at the time was rightly his, they should right that wrong. And though you bring it up any chance you have, this is not even remotely similar to the results of AD '21. This is an instance that, if proven true, shows they covered up a race fixing incident and let it slide.

[airshifter]

Please just join the conversation. Having a go at me only brings about a reaction to your jibes and the conversation disintegrates into an argument rather than a discussion.

If you find argument in others stating known facts as such, or that speculation is just that, then you probably should just write all these thoughts in your personal journal and be done with it. At this point you've engaged in deep conspiracy theories on several levels well outside this incident, but insist that only your speculation on the matters must be considered feasible. You've made digs at essentially anyone that might dare question your speculation or opinion, and then claim to be a victim when you're called out on it. Your reactions are a result of convincing yourself that you are in your own mind a greater authority on all these matters than others could possibly be.

There are very few things known in this entire matter, other than Felipe has a number of lawyers and is moving forward.

If you want to go deep into your rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and vast speculation, accept the fact that others might not agree with it. And accept that statements of others are just as valid as a possible cause, opinion, reason, etc as your own, especially when people clearly label them with "if" and "might have" type qualifying statements. You're no more an authority on any of these matters than anyone else following the story, and being that we are all still only dealing with claims and accusations yet to be proven to have even taken place, there is really no room for anyone to start speaking in absolutes.

[Bagwan]

This is a thread that you started. As the author of the thread, it is up to you to conduct yourself in an exemplary manner to everyone who contributes to your thread. Insulting or using disparaging words to those who contribute to your thread would simply inform them and other readers of this threads to avoid your threads in the future.

I suppose you don't see the irony in this post , either .

You are a Lewis Hamilton fan behind a thin veil .

Did I just insult you ?

[Bagwan]

"Please don't start the Hamilton fans crap. This is a plain discussion which incidentally affects Hamilton."

Many , many times you have called me out for being a Hamilton hater because I dared to disagree about some issue or incident in which he was involved .
Do you see that irony ?

It's OK to be a Hamilton fan , you know .


In the quote from Bernie that shifter posted , I would interpret "we" as "Max and I" , as the show was basically run by those two cowboys .

As for Massa making his claim and invoking a "microscope" reaction , perhaps the dirty dealings need that , to sort out why things were done the way they were .

[Bagwan]

I just fixed two holes in the fence where the rabbits were getting into the garden .

[airshifter]

I just fixed two holes in the fence where the rabbits were getting into the garden .

Be cautious Bagwan. Once those rabbits get in, you can end up with rabbit holes, and if you start going down them.... well we see how that works out for some people!




Sorry Nitrodaze, I'm not going to play along with your victim mentality and continued jabs and conspiracy theories. You are the one editing and deleting posts that are lame and childish attempts IMHO to stop others from ever differing with anything you claim, even that which is known to be simply speculation. You edited a post taking a shot at Bagwan in this thread, and then deleted another taking a shot at me. So no... I'm not going to play along with the victim game.

Everyone else on here manages to get along without resorting to insults, even when we often vary in opinions and discussions in facts. Don't expect the world to change around your views. For years now you've attempted to paint many others as uninformed, grossly biased, haters, racists and more... usually only in defense of all things Hamilton. Yet these are people you know little or anything about. The forum deserves better than childlike actions when engaging in discussion or debate. If you can't slow yourself down enough to see the irony in attacking other forum members then claiming to be attacked, maybe you should just not post until you collect your thoughts better. If you post nonsense, people might call it out as nonsense, and that applies to all of us.

Conspiracy theories happen all the time in F1, and you're more than entitled to discuss whatever conspiracy theory you might have. But when you expect others to engage, that's their choice, not a requirement. And when they reach a point of too deep a theory, usually someone will point out that it's over the top.

Not that any of this matters. According to one of my former neighbors Hamilton was never the legit winner of the title in 2008 regardless. To him the fact that it happened on the last corner, on the last lap, of the last race of the reason was absolute proof that the title was gifted to him. And he probably still believes that to this day. But belief doesn't make him correct.

[Bagwan]

"Be cautious Bagwan. Once those rabbits get in, you can end up with rabbit holes, and if you start going down them.... well we see how that works out for some people! '

It was pure coincidence , shifter , that I was forced to fix it today .
I had to chase a bunny out just yesterday , and earlier in the year he messed with the trophy wife's beans , so the saggy gate that allowed entry (and exit when I caught him in there) needed work .

I was glad to read the words "rabbit hole" in this thread as it reminded me of the fix that was needed .